Rex: [00:00:00] This podcast episode contains potentially sensitive topics around the issue of homelessness Listener discretion is advised.

Bruce: In fact, I tell folks that if you wanna know why people aren't going to shelters, go spend a night in a shelter. Go see a shelter and you'll see. I don't see, uh, shelter options as being a viable option for virtually any human being.

There are very few folks that I re- even suggest go to a shelter. Obvi- I, I'm not averse to it. If they want to, and I can tell them what's available. In fact, I'll, I ... When, whenever I go to a sweep, I'll make sure they get to know what, what shelter options are, are available, but they don't offer anything.

When they do sweeps, there are only, there are usually one or two beds available per day for, for the whole city of Seattle. What they do offer in terms of shelter are not, to my mind, generally humanly habitable.

Rex: . I'm Rex Hohlbein, and welcome to [00:01:00] You Know Me Now, a podcast conversation that strives to amplify the unheard voices in our community, as well as the individuals and organizations that are in service to those in need.

In these episodes, I want to remind all of our listeners that the folks who share here do so with a great deal of courage and vulnerability. They share a common hope that by giving all of us this window into their world, they're opening an increased level of awareness, understanding, and perhaps most importantly, a connection within our own community.

Several years ago, while walking through a homeless encampment in the Ballard neighborhood, stretched for several blocks along Leary Avenue, I saw a man sitting comfortably in a folding camp chair rolling cigarettes. He had several folks standing around waiting their turn for a smoke. All the while, he was talking and joking, [00:02:00] and most beautifully, he was connecting.

This man, with his big fluffy white beard, guitar at his side, handing out free cigarettes to those living homeless, is Bruce Draeger. For 20 years, Bruce taught biology and zoology at Ballard High School in Seattle, where he also coached the cross-country team. Today, we're talking with Bruce to hear his journey into addressing the issue of homelessness.

And with that, let's begin our conversation. Let's start by maybe just having you introduce yourself. How does, how does Bruce tell the world who he is?

Bruce: Well, uh, y- you know, and that's the tough thing about getting older too, 'cause you got so much. I'm gonna... This iteration of my life, I'm gonna... And it certainly is a...

This is, for the first time in my life, I really felt it was sort of an iteration where there was a calling of sorts- Mm ... that-

Rex: The work

Bruce: you're doing now. Oh, oh, definitely. Yeah, where [00:03:00] I, I decided n- eight years ago that, uh, I was... I had a company in Colorado that I was doing with my brother, and, uh- I said, uh, I think I'm gonna...

I was, I was at a church function. Actually, it was a function where, uh, associated with one of the, with the church I was going there, th- uh, going to there. And it was a community dinner of sorts for homeless population of folks. Believe it or not, this was up at about 10,000 feet in the Rockies in Colorado, and there were homeless people that were living there.

And we had a community of probably 10, 15 folks that lived up there, and they somehow made it through the nights, sometimes minus 20 degrees. And, and we were do- it was Thanksgiving. I was there with my daughters who'd come to visit me, and I was, we went out to do this community dinner at this church. I turned to my daughter and I said, "I've, I've gotta go back to Seattle and fix homelessness."

Wow. Just came to me right there. Wow, that's beautiful. I [00:04:00] just, uh, I just, I never, I had never considered it before and I just said, "This is..." You know, I just re- realized there was something that fell on my heart at that point being with that, with that, those folks there at that dinner.

Rex: Okay, and your, and your work is, is, uh, fix homelessness in Seattle.

But-

Bruce: Mm ...

Rex: your work has primarily been in the, starting in the Green Lake area and then has morphed to Ballard. Mm-hmm. Is that, is that correct?

Bruce: That's right, yeah.

Rex: And, uh, and the reason I wanna bring that up is, is, um, in addition to wanting to hear specifically what are you doing in Ballard, but you were also a teacher at Ballard High.

Bruce: That's right. Yeah. So- In my previous life, I was at- Yeah. For 20 years, I taught at Ballard High School.

Rex: What did you teach?

Bruce: Biology.

Rex: Yeah. And I, I have to say I've, um, when I've met folks that are outside in Ballard, your name will come up. Yeah. I'll say, "Well, do you know Bruce Dreger?" And, and then I'll let them know, you know, I'll say, "Well, he taught at Ballard High," when they say they're [00:05:00] from the neighborhood, right?

Mm-hmm. Right. And so I think there's this beautiful connection that you also have- Mm ... by having been in the community for years.

Bruce: Oh, yeah, sure.

Rex: Yeah. So you get back to Seattle, what, what happened? What, how did you start this off- Well, I- ... this, this new calling?

Bruce: Yeah. In fact, well, this is the way I do things. I, I just thought, "Well, how, what's, what are they, what's going on in homelessness these days?

What are some of the, what are those, what's the general thinking about how to fix it?" And I, I read a couple articles- Um, by Sam, Sam Barris, who was the father of Housing First. And, uh, at that time he was, uh, uh, working at, in, in New York. And, uh, I just said, "What the heck? I'll just..." I, I somehow found a phone number, called him up, and literally he, uh, you know, he, uh, picks up the phone, talks with me for about an hou- hour, and he...

I, I just told him I was, hey, what I was [00:06:00] thinking about doing, and I wanted to go back and, and, uh, work on fixing homelessness in Seattle. And he says, "Isn't that, uh, great?" You know, and he, uh, he told me some of the folks to contact down, down here. He is friend with the, um, with the, the guy who does DESC, Daniel Malone.

And, uh, and he s- he suggested to, to hook up with a couple nonprofit organizations and, and get, just sort of get my feet wet, and which I did. I came back. I worked with Third Door, Sarah Rankin there at, uh, Seattle University. And, and so I just jumped in and I worked at about 20 different nonprofit organizations, and I just was getting a feel for what was going on, and I thought to myself This doesn't seem to be working.

I, I see a lot of well-intended folks that are, uh, that for whatever reason are not, are not taking those steps that I think are gonna make a difference. I didn't know what that was, what it looked like, [00:07:00] but it just seemed like this was, you know, we're just sort of putting Band-Aids on the problem. We're not, we're not solving this.

And, uh, so

Rex: I- If you a- if you asked 100 people in Seattle, "Do you think we're solving problems or putting Band-Aids on it?" Yeah. You'd probably get 100 people that would agree, all agree with you on that- Oh, absolutely ... statement, right? Right. Yeah. 'Cause there's a high level of frustration.

Bruce: Sure. Sure. And, uh, so I said, "Well, I, I'm..."

What do you do when you realize that there's, there's over 400 nonprofits in Seattle that are not doing anything that are, that's working? Well, you just create another nonprofit. And that's- Right ... what I did. I created Green Lake Homeless Advocates at the time, and I was... At that time, my daughter had come to live with me in Seattle.

Uh, sh- and she was a social worker that worked with homeless folks. And in lar- large part, the reason why I was, decided to do this too was because I was inspired by what she was doing. And we used to take walks around Green Lake, and at that time, there were about 30 people living in tents [00:08:00] around Green Lake.

And I, I just turned to her one day and I said, "Why don't we... What would you think if I went and just started talking with folks? Is there... And if, could I fig- w- would you think that it would be possible for me to work with one or two of these individuals and get them into housing in a year?" And she sort of shook her head, "So no, that, that can't be done."

And I said, "Well, that's what I'm gonna try and do. In fact, I'm gonna try and build a model where I can create, uh, this, this, this idea, this notion that y- we, that one person connected to one person, working with them just an, an hour a week, and you can work, walk with them into housing." And sure enough, in, you know, in the first year, there were two guys that I ran into there.

They were tent mates at the time. And, uh, they... I worked with them and in a year's time, we, I got 'em into housing and I said w- or... And I just said, "Well, this is great. Now all I gotta do is just go find 4,000 people like [00:09:00] me, and we'll fix this." And that's sort of been my, my thing over the years, is that I just say, figured, well, let's, uh, let's figure out a way to get- What year was that, Bruce?

people connected. That was, that was just before or, or the start of COVID, I think, '21, '22, something like that.

Rex: Okay.

Bruce: And, uh, so that's what I did. And I, uh, uh, and then I, then l- later on... So what I s- would do at that point is I'd just say, "Well, let's, I'm gonna go out to encampments where the, um, the, where there's an impending sweep."

And I will work, try to work with those folks as long as I can, try to get them to a place where they get ready to take that n- next step when they get swept. I'm hoping that they'll, that they can find a way to maximize the chances that, uh, that they find a place to get connected with, with outreach services and come out on the other end of the sweep better off, you know, if that's [00:10:00] possible.

And, uh, and, and that's what I did. I went to go, and at the same time continued th- with this idea, this model of staying connected to one person I continued to work with, and I, and I continue to work with those folks as a matter of fact.

Rex: What were those steps? Uh, I know it's gonna be different for every person, right?

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: Into housing. But think, if you're thinking of those first two individuals, um, what, what were those steps that allowed you to be successful?

Bruce: The steps that allowed me and for them to be successful was staying on track, basically. It was a matter of... I, I found, I figured, and that was one of the things I realized when I was working with non-profits early on, it's that there's, for every non-profit, there's 400 different balls that get dropped.

Between, there's, as you've probably heard, there's a lack of collaboration and, and, and, and, and- Siloing ... cooperation between organizations, and there's no sense within e- e- each individual non-profit as to how it [00:11:00] is that once the ball gets dropped, how does it get picked up again? And I realized that's really what I, what you need to be as a companion.

You, you need to be that person that notices that the ball get dr- got dropped, what color the ball was. Yeah. Go find it, go pick it back up- Yeah ... and give it back to the person and, and take that next step. That's really, providing that sort of continuity and consistency is completely lacking wi- in, in horizontally and vertically within the system.

You can't, they don't c- comm- communicate between one another, and there's no communication from one step to the other once you're progressing. If I'm, if I've now got my ID and I'm ready to go to the next step, what does that next step look like and who, how do I communicate it to the next level, you know, once I wanna get 'em hooked up with a n- housing navigator?

Well, so you want, you wanna be able to ke- you know, carry all the information that you've learned and the s- and the progress that you've made early on, you wanna carry over to that next step so you can get [00:12:00] to the, get to the next one.

Rex: Yeah. So continuity. Basically just, uh, making the saf- the safety net- Mm-hmm

um, tighter so that person doesn't slip through the cracks.

Bruce: Yeah, well-

Rex: You have to go back to the beginning.

Bruce: Just to notice that you fell through a crack-

Rex: Yeah ...

Bruce: is the, is the first thing. You realize, well, wait a second. And you know, we're, we, we, we lost track of that. We need to figure out how to, how to go back to that point and pick up where we missed it and, and, and where do we need to take that next turn.

Rex: Yeah. So tell me, what was the transition from Green Lake to Ballard? Because I feel like you had a big, you had a big, uh, uh, movement-

Bruce: Yeah ...

Rex: with regards to the services and the area that you were, you were frequenting. Tell

Bruce: us- Well, it just turns out- Tell us about that ... as I said, so as I said, I began working with encampments and getting people that were, uh, you know, gonna get swept, ready to be swept, and, um, it just, as I was bouncing around all over [00:13:00] the north end of Seattle, you know, probably had visited about, uh, tw- I, I'd spent time at about 20 camps at that point.

The next one was in Ballard And when it, and it was over on 11th and Leary, I remember, was the first camp that I worked with there in Ballard. And sure enough, the same sort of... I, I did the same gig where I worked with that population, you know, k- tried to get them connected with... Usually that involves, you know, the HOPE team that's out there that's in, in charge of figuring out how to get them into any available shelter if there is some, and that sort of stuff.

And so, um, so I re- I again work- began working with that group, and then, uh, as soon as they got swept, they'd moved over, you know, most of that population moved two blocks over to Leary, and that led to that population there along Leary that y- where you and I originally met several years ago. Uh, and that was where that was that large population of, you know, f- you know, 40 or 50 tents- Yeah

at [00:14:00] some point. And, uh,

Rex: and- About two, two blocks long.

Bruce: Yeah. And, uh, and worked with that population and, and then the same thing happened. We, you know, I forget how many months that took, but it's probably a four or five-month period where they really... And that was just as Bruce Harrell was coming on board, and he was real serious about making it at least look good like we're really doing...

We're making s- taking some steps in the right direction, and he made a genuine effort, at least in the initial segment, to get folks into viable, uh, transitional housing. And, um, during that period, I, I, I began to realize that there was this huge population of folks in Ballard, and it was clear to me that, and as I've c- as I've come to known, that we now...

There's about 600 people living on the streets in Ballard, and I'm quite convinced there's more homeless people living on the streets in Ballard than any other pl- any other area- Mm-hmm ... in Seattle. Highest concentration. And, uh, and that was, that was what drew me to staying in [00:15:00] Ballard. I said, "Well, you know, it's clear to me that there's this population here and needs our attention."

Because I think that what... If we can figure out how to build a model for how to work to lift the voices of those people, at least tell their stories, understand that they're there, understand what's truly happening to them, and the fact that they're not genuinely being offered, uh, o- viable options when it comes to getting swept.

People don't understand why, why they're not accepting- The offers that are being made, they call them service resistant, and it's only because there are no real viable offers for the most part to, to folks, and they're just sweeping from one place to the next. And that's sort of the story that we've begun to understand.

They're probably mo- more profoundly in Ballard than anywhere else.

Rex: Right. You, you specifically, when you say keep track, you are actually tracking how many people are in the camps, where they get moved to, how many people, uh, were given [00:16:00] housing or shelter. Um, tell me about that, like the statistics on that.

Bruce: Well, the, the statistics are basically this. There, uh, in, in your average sweep, you probably, you get maybe one offer of, of viable shelter. And when I say viable shelter, in fact I just spoke with the Hope Team about that, 'cause we're beginning to work more closely with them and occur- create a, or a worthwhile relationship where we can cooperate.

Um, and I just tried, we tried to talk about what viability is, and in, in our case, the first step in viability has to be something that they want, something that someone's willing to accept. And people, again, may wonder why is it that, that they won't accept shelter. Well, because they're dangerous as heck.

They, you know, you've, you've... I've got this whole... In fact, I used to spend nights, one of the first things I did when I first came here is spend nights in, in shelters with folks. And, uh, I never slept On, [00:17:00] on the nights that I was on site, and I c- and I can see why. Yeah. I just, I di- I didn't feel safe. And, uh, there's an assortment of reasons why folks don't go into, into shelters.

There, and there's,

Rex: there- Well, well there's, there's also this, um, perception that when services are w- are presented and, and then refused that, well, that person doesn't really wanna get off homeless- o- out of homelessness. Mm-hmm. And, and rather than asking the other question, which could be, well, what about what I'm offering is actually not a good fit, is not working for that person, right?

Mm-hmm. And that's, that's a more reflective looking back at yourself. Well, I'm offering- Mm. Like, if I offered you a giraffe and you really needed a horse- Mm-hmm ... y- you're just gonna say no to the giraffe, right? Because the giraffe's- Mm ... not helping you in the way- Mm ... that you know you need help.

Bruce: Oh, absolutely.

In fact, I say f- tell folks that if you wanna know why people aren't going to shelters, go spend a night in a shelter. Go see a shelter and you'll see. I don't see, uh, shelter [00:18:00] options as being a viable option for virtually any human being. I'm, uh, I don't, I, I would never... There are very few folks that I re- even suggest go to a shelter.

I, I'm not averse to it. If they want to, and I can tell them what's available. In fact, I'll, I, when, whenever I go to a sweep, I'll make sure they get to know what, what shelter options are, are available. There are only, there are usually one or two beds available per day for, for the whole city of Seattle.

Not, not to mention just this encampment. So, so there are no beds that are available. The, what they do offer in terms of shelter are not, if to my, to my mind, generally humanly habitable. And so, uh, so it's, it's really-

Rex: Give, give us an example of, like, what are the... I mean, I know we can talk about bedbugs and intimidation and late in and early out.

It, what would be your list?

Bruce: I'd, I'd probably... And, and I'm a pretty big guy, but I'd probably get the hell beat out of me, because [00:19:00] that's the one thing I hear the most of is that- Mm ... guys, from guys' standpoints, and there are n- virtually no women's shelters out there. There are very few. But for, for the guys that go there, they all get beat up somewhere along the way unless you're Yeah, the violence

at, and, and I can see it. I see them come home, come out of these shelters with black eyes and, and, uh, scars all over their bodies and, and, uh, but very few people are able to, you know, I, and I admire, there are a few folks that are able to go to these shelters and stay in these shelters, but I don't know how they do it.

Rex: So much of what your work is, and I think the outreach, uh, that goes on in the city, uh, is based on relationship.

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: And, and you know, uh, there, I don't think there's anything formulaic about it. I think every person has to bring their own way of how to connect and, and be in a relationship. I remember meeting you the first time, and you were, you were sitting in a chair rolling cigarettes for people and- Mm-hmm

and you had your [00:20:00] guitar by the- Right ... by your side. Right. Uh, and you were- Right ... picking that up and singing some songs. Right. And that works. People, people love you for that. Mm. T- can you talk about that, about how you connect with people outside?

Bruce: Yeah. I didn't, didn't think about that. I didn't think about, how about how important that was until just recently, as I mentioned to you how that's one of the main emphasis Items that we do within our task force, I'm, uh, more and more trying to discuss with folks the need for creating viable companionship of some sort, some relationship.

And in fact, I r- I, I began to realize right about the same time I think I invited you first to come speak to us, I began to realize, 'cause you told, told me that story about how important community was and how important relationship was. And I, I've been very, a very transactional kind of person my whole life, and I've, the, I originally got into this with the idea that I was gonna figure out how to transact a [00:21:00] progress for folks, and what was that gonna look like and how was I gonna measure it.

But later on I realized you get nowhere, you get absolutely nowhere unless you care about these folks and they care about you. If you do not make that connection, you might as well forget about it. You know, you're, you're, you're, you know, you're just, uh, y- the... And, and then that's the key to it. You're pushing a rope.

That's the, that's exactly right, and that's the key to this, this whole pro- process, is that you have to have, you know, the, that relationship. And for whatever reason, you know, I w- I connected with folks early on, and maybe I, I can't describe why.

Rex: It might be that you're a likable guy.

Bruce: Well, that's, uh- I'm, I'm a, I'm likable by them.

I ho- I'm not very likable by most of the folks that I, the, the organizations that I work with out there that, uh, that I try to share that space with. Although, as I said, I've become, I've, I've gotten better and better at it as I've known. 'Cause again, it's all [00:22:00] about helping those folks get off the streets, and w- I'll do whatever it takes to make sure that, you know, if, if, if, if it's ver- if it is important, and it is, to make sure that they have, that equally they trust the idea that those folks that, uh, work for the HOPE team are acting at least, uh, you know, uh, ha- ha- hold the key to them making progress.

And I do believe that the key to making progress, and that's why I've been so, so supportive of what Katie has done with proposing to provide for these, these enhanced shelters, is I bel- I believe that's probably the only, uh, plausible f- way forward right now, practical way forward. And that if we can, and I do believe that the way f- for this to happen is to help folks get into tiny home villages.

Rex: Yeah. And when you said Katie, you, you're referring to Katie Wilson- Katie Wilson ... our mayor. Yeah,

Bruce: sure.

Rex: Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about sweeps.

Bruce: Okay.

Rex: Um, I heard a statistic, read a stat- a [00:23:00] statistic, uh, yesterday That actually she is outpacing Harrell-

Bruce: Mm-hmm ...

Rex: in sweeps. Now, I know we've got the World Cup here, and that probably plays a part in it, right?

Mm-hmm. But what's your take on that?

Bruce: Yeah,

Rex: well- And, and that question, let me say too, that question's not to badmouth, uh, Katie Wilson. Mm-hmm. I actually am in her camp as well- Mm-hmm ... uh, in supportive of, of her- Mm-hmm ... what seems to be heartfelt efforts to address this issue to make it her, her thing, right?

Mm-hmm. To really get on it. But- Mm-hmm. Well- ... we're off to a ro- rocky start.

Bruce: Yeah. Well, look, I, I guess welcome to being mayor, right? Uh, and I, six months ago I shook Katie's hand at, uh, the 41st Street Camp, and she told me that day that she was looking for a better way to do things, and I believed her, and I still believe her.

I believe her heart's in the right place, [00:24:00] and, uh, and now it's just a matter of trying to figure out how to navigate the treacherous waters of politics right now. And as I said, she's proposed to... Her emphasis at this stage of the game is to at least be able to say, "Okay, if we wanna change the way we're gonna do..."

At that time she suggested that, "Well, well maybe we'll sort of slow our roll a little bit when it comes to doing sweeps," because Bruce Harrell, for the last four years, I, I, I coined the term sweep with impunity, which was sort of the, that was sort of the, the, his, his only solution that he had proposed for fixing homelessness, was we're just gonna f- sweep these people into oblivion, and that's essentially what has happened.

And I think that Katie, uh, would like to find that way to do that. I think that she's having some resistance within the system and, and I have a feeling, well, without speculating too much, uh, d- you know, I, I guess it's basically when you jump in as [00:25:00] mayor, you're on board this giant steam, you know, s- ship, and you gotta figure out how to turn the wheel, and, uh, it's, it doesn't go fast, and I think that's really where she's at, is that there's...

We have a situation where, and there, the powers that be w- are, you know, the money powers that be with these, this downtown association which, which she relies a lo- a lot upon their, their support in terms of funding these shelters, is gonna want to make sure that, that we, she keeps, that she stays on track with regards to the sweeps.

And, uh, that, and that's where I, I think she's felt a lot of pressure. It's my- Yeah ... it's my intention once this whole FIFA thing is over, I wanna go back to her and, and ask her, "Let's sit down and let's reconsider the way we're doing sweeps," 'cause we do have to have, get very m- m- much more intentional with our design about how it is that we, [00:26:00] that we move people, that we find places, genuine places for people to go rather than just as she says, "It doesn't do any good to push them from one place to another," because that's all that's happening right now.

Rex: Yeah, and, and clearly if you ha- One of the problems is you have to have a place to, to shelter them.

Bruce: Right.

Rex: Mm-hmm. You, you have to have housing. Right. You, uh, doing outreach prior to a sweep is of no use if there's no place, you know, if there's no room at the inn, so to speak. Um, but also some of it, when you say with intention, right, i- it's like the sweep that just took place behind Fred Meyer there by Albert Lee.

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: Boy, I, I, I'm not, I don't know Albert Lee's story. I know I've been there enough to see the Albert Lee truck drivers-

Bruce: Mm-hmm ...

Rex: be really courteous and friendly and- Mm-hmm ... stop when somebody was crossing through that encampment.

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: From the outside looking in- Mm ... that seemed like a perfect place-

Bruce: Mm-hmm

Rex: to have 50 to 60 people living.

Bruce: I agree.

Rex: Out of sight- Yeah ... completely. Mm-hmm. And, and [00:27:00] not, and not crazy either. The place was, was holding together, right?

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: Uh, there wasn't junk and garbage strewn everywhere. Mm-hmm. And yet they got swept.

Bruce: Right. Right. Well, there's what I... As I said, somewhere along the way, we're g- we're gonna have to look at this, and we're gonna have to say, "You know what?

One of our options that needs to be available is the opportunity to, um, delay the process and be able to, to, to genuinely send folks out with that intent, to do that intentional sorta outreach that j- that finds, that navigates that, that viable shelter option for virtually everyone in the camp." And I've proposed that idea to her.

And as you said, that would've been a perfect place to say, "Hey, wait a second here. This, this camp is not obstructive in any way." And that was one of the most remarkable... I, I, I, you know, you've... I'm glad that you said that because I've noticed the same thing there [00:28:00] going there every day. They didn't block the way of these trucks.

The trucks, it, there was nothing going on. This place was not a problem in any way, shape, or form. There were f- 50 or 60 folks living there. Uh, as you said, it's relatively clean. There, there was no, there was nothing going on there. It wasn't even used for parking because they had already put down enough eco blocks in that area that you could not feasibly park vehicles there.

And so as best I could tell, there was, this space was used for nothing. And indeed, we're proposing at, we're gonna come back. We, we just sat and had a meeting yesterday. We were talking about the possibility of creating sanctioned camps. And this would have been a great candidate, and we're gonna suggest this option, this particular camp as an example of what would have been a great possible site for a sanctioned camp.

And as it turns out, within the last five months, virtually all seven of the encampments that [00:29:00] have been swept by, uh, by Katie and her, uh, or by the HOPE team, uh, while Katie was, was mayor, could have been, uh, very unobtrusive as well. Yeah. I mean, they, they really were in perfect spots to... There were very f- no residences around.

There were no, they weren't, they weren't blocking access to, to any of the businesses. They were pr- we were helping, especially with our, with our Good Neighbor Crew to go in there and help maintain these camps, so they were, you know, they were, we, there wasn't too much trash going on and that sort of stuff.

So I really gotta scratch my head and think, well, w- is there a way that we can begin to look at this option of saying, "You know, why don't we just l- let's have these folks stay there. Let's provide the kinds of outreach that can find genuine housing for them, and let's not just be pushing them from one place to another."

Rex: Yeah, and I would add, you know, uh, rather than spending money on, on the police and on the garbage and all of the work that it takes to, [00:30:00] to clear an encampment, uh, including then chain link fencing and more eco blocks, to consider looking at, um, a partnership with, for instance in this case, Albert Lea.

Mm-hmm. How can the city help you, right? You're being- Mm-hmm ... you, you are being impacted by this encampment. Mm-hmm.

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: Is there a, is there a way the city can actually help you- Mm-hmm ... during this time? Yeah. Because, you know, it's a, it's a societal failure and it should not be brought to Albert Lea's doorstep.

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: Right. So can, can we spend money in your, in your direction? Right. I, I mean, I think there's creative ways to move forward that don't just go back to kind of a second-grade response, which is, "Let's just sweep."

Bruce: Yeah. Well, that's all we know right now. It's a reflex response at this stage- Yeah ... because we've gotten used to it for the last four years.

You know, it just, uh- And longer ... when in, when in doubt- Yeah ... s- sweep, you know? Yeah.

Rex: Tell me why sweeps are so, so wrong.

Bruce: Well, uh, other than, as I said, they don't accomplish any of the, [00:31:00] uh, the apparent goals, which is to c- clear the streets, but they... It just devastates the lives of the folks. They lose every...

In fact, this last sweep that I, I witnessed, which was a week ago, virtually 90% of what they had there, they lost. They, for whatever reason, this encampment wasn't very well prepared, and, uh, virtually everything was, you know, tossed into the dumpster, so they lose all their things. I mean, these are folks that have virtually nothing to start with, and imagine losing everything that you have, and they do.

And, uh, that's when I, um, they, they, they're always coming to me for new tents at the af- after every sweep. And their, their lives get completely tips- you know, tipped upside down. They lose valuable, uh, items like identification. They lose just, uh, they lose a, a lot of their, e- e- virtually, it's amazing. Like I said, they, the littlest thing, the slightest thing that they [00:32:00] have ownership at all of, they lose, and, and it'd be, like I say, that's as valuable to them as anything- Yeah

we have, you know? Yeah. They... And, uh, and it disrupts their, their whole life pattern. They ha- they have to, in order, they have to re- find a new place to live. They have to s- sometimes be situated in a new camp, where they develop some animosity between those, the, the new folks that, that are upset about them moving in, so there's- There's that sort of trauma.

There's just basically the trauma of having to find something to eat again. They gotta find how am I gonna get to, you know, where, where I need to get to, to get my, uh, to get my food sources. And e- th- it's just totally-

Rex: It's mayhem.

Bruce: Yeah, yeah.

Rex: The two other things I can add to that list are people that are working, outreach workers- Oh

often, often then lose the person they're working with because they don't have a phone, and then they spend weeks searching for that person. Absolutely. Um, [00:33:00] maybe they were on a housing list and their number came up, and now they, they lose their housing because they were out of touch.

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: Um, and the other thing is that, um, as dysfunctional as it may be, they are still in community.

Bruce: Absolutely, yeah.

Rex: And the community now is being completely disbanded.

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: And they have to build again, like you said, they have to start over with their community and, and often in a new encampment with people that they have to then now work out these new relationships.

Bruce: Right.

Rex: So what's next for you, for the Ballard Task Force?

Bruce: Well, the b- the r- at this stage of the game, we wanna make sure that we want to know that, uh- Katie Wilson has our support actually, and that we wanna make sure that she succeeds with these shelter options becoming available to folks. That's, I think that's critical. And so we wanna make sure that, uh, we stay in touch with the people that get into these shelters and that they succeed and [00:34:00] they thrive and they continue to participate in and stay connected with their, um, with their case workers when they get there.

And that's a big part of what our companionship program is all about, and we've already reached out to the, uh, Everybody Deserves Housing organization that built this, this, uh, new shelter that's going in there at Interbay. Although so far we haven't heard of anybody from Ballard going in there, and that's one of our sticky issues right now is we're concerned with the fact that, uh, all these folks from downtown, the, the FIFA folks got moved in there, and are, are, are...

is any of our Ballard community gonna get there? And if they do, uh, then we're gonna be in a position to follow them and make sure they continue to succeed, and that they eventually get into permanent housing. And that's sort of the goal here is we wanna make sure we... And as I said, that's the first part we can, we can certainly do, is provide the truth and the story about what happens to these people and where they end up so that...[00:35:00]

And, and Katie and all of us deserve to know that and need to know that to make the, to make those sort of next step decisions. If, if this is working, let's keep doing it or do it better.

Rex: If it's not-

Bruce: If it's not, let's figure out- Let's pivot ... let's figure out something else we can do.

Rex: Yeah. When you walked in, you handed me, uh, the Ballard Street Bulletin number eight.

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: Can you tell us about this? What, uh-

Bruce: Yeah, well, ...

Rex: what, what are these bulletins about?

Bruce: Well, this is eight, so this is at least we're two months into this. Yeah, a few months ago we decided we're just gonna start to produce a, a newsletter that we'll hand out to folks at camps, and we hand out at the community ta- at community dinners and community meals around town.

And, uh, it's amazing what a success these have been and how much interest it's generated amongst the folks that are living on the streets because- It gives them, us an opportunity to communicate to them that we care about them, that we're thinking about them, and we really want to [00:36:00] work with them to maximize their own life outcomes.

Rex: Yeah.

Bruce: And that's a revelation. Well, it's, it becomes a revelation to us as we see how interested they are in figuring out how to get plugged in. We have u- usually have entries every week, uh, from some of the folks that are living on the streets too, but we have just a lot of valuable information that we think we can provide for folks.

We hand these out every week at the, when we meet with the folks on Saturdays. Our Good Neighbor crew that goes out and helps clean up the camps and, and, and serve breakfast on Saturdays, uh, brings these and hands these out, and the first thing they do is, uh, is read these from cover to cover. So we're really happy with the fact that we started this process.

As I said to you, who, who, who coulda thunk or who, who coulda known this was gonna be such a success? But this is, as you suggested, it's all about relationship, and this is what do we do when we have relationships? We write each other letters. We communicate with one another. We talk [00:37:00] to one another, and this is just part of that- Yeah

relationship puzzle.

Rex: And it's a one-page, uh, bulletin front and back. Mm-hmm. And it, and it's basically it's, uh, some metrics on what's going on. It's, um... Tell us what it, what does it include?

Bruce: Well, it includes things like it just basically gives a little, uh, I usually give a statement, uh, l- like this last week, this is mine.

We're hopeful that, uh, individuals displaced from the Ballard, Ballard in the future will be offered shelter at the Bayside Enhanced Shelter. This is the new shelter that's going in that has, gonna have the 75 tiny homes. Because we want people to know that these are becoming available, and likely people there on the streets in Ballard are gonna be offered these, and the best way they can do that, uh, so is to stay in contact with the, with the, with the Hope Team and Reach and all that out there.

And so it says, "So we're told that 25 homes will be available around July 1st, and please stay positive as, as positive as possible. In the meantime, please be aware [00:38:00] and remind each other that the pace of the sweeps in Ball- in the Ballard area is increasing." And what, think about what this means for you, and then we have sort of a, a list of steps of what you can ch- how you should get prepared for a sweep, how you, how you need to stay connected with the folks from the HOPE team and anyone else that's out there, and make sure that the, that you know, they...

First of all, they need to know you're there, and that you're interested in getting off the streets, and that you're perfectly willing to, uh... We have, right now, we have a, a list of folks we've got, uh, that's over 100 people long, of people that have already committed to wanting to be in a Twua Tiny Home, and I'm, sent a copy to Katie Wilson and her team this last week, and I sent a copy to the HOPE team and, and, uh, so it's, we keep everybody communi- we communicate with everybody through this.

Rex: Yeah. That's beautiful. I love it. What would you tell folks that are listening to this that have never been involved? What's the message to them?

Bruce: Well, [00:39:00] if you're wondering about how you can fix homelessness, think about companioning. Figure out a way, get plugged in in some way, and there's a lotta different avenues for doing that, but one of the best way to do, best way that you can do that is to go to a community meal and sit down and share a community meal.

It's a free dinner. Usually the meals are pretty good. And, um, if you really wanna get serious about this and you wanna talk to me, or I, I, I recommend that, to contact Facing Homelessness. You guys are the, one of the organizations that is the strongest promoters of community and relationship, and, and, but that's what it...

As I said, that's what it's all about. It's just a matter of getting to know somebody that's homeless. I think if you can start there, I think you're, you have your, your little, uh, sticker that says, "Just say hi."

Rex: Just say hello.

Bruce: Just say hello, that's right. Just say hello, and I would say that I'd add a little, the our sticker says, "And [00:40:00] get to know."

Rex: Yeah.

Bruce: So just say hello, and get, and then sit down and get to know these folks, and once you, once you... If, if nothing else, it's gonna move them, and it's gonna move you. It's gonna move your heart, and if your heart moves, you're gonna move someone else's heart, and that's really what this is about. It's about promulgating a, a narrative that says, "You know, these folks are part of our nei- are...

They're our neighbors, and they are a part of our community, and we wanna make sure that we treat them that way, and that they deserve a home somewhere."

Rex: Yeah. You know, when before we turned the recorder on, we talked a little bit about these solutions that finally emerge, these ideas, and we ask ourselves, "Why didn't we start this, you know, five years ago?"

Or, "What," you know, "what took us so long?" And I, I think what you just said about when somebody gets to know another person, it's not just for them, but f- not for the person that's living homeless, but for themselves, too, right? Mm-hmm. And then they [00:41:00] have started on this process- Mm-hmm ... of, of finding that solution.

It won't be apparent right in the beginning.

Bruce: Mm-mm.

Rex: But they get to know somebody. They go to more and more of these community meals or get involved, you know, being a volunteer with your organization. Um, it'll come. Yeah. It's, it's just part of that process. Um, I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about, um, about Brent.

Bruce: Okay.

Rex: Because Brent is a, a success story, right? Mm-hmm. He, he's become also part of the Facing Homelessness community now with- Mm-hmm ... drivers driving him to his, uh, T-shirt selling business.

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: But that started early on in a, in, in a relationship with you, I believe.

Bruce: Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. He was one of those guys that lived, uh, along Leary, lived right in, in front of Quest Church.

Uh, you know, I guess we all sort of need these sort of poster childs because it gives us, gives us something to, to promote your idea with. In fact, he, uh, and he [00:42:00] sure-certainly is almost as if he's a plant. You know, I, I don't know if, you know, could we have, could we have programmed it this way? Could we have written this into the script in some way?

But he certainly has... But he started working with one of the, with one of the companions that I had working with me at the, at, with Green Lake Homeless Advocates. That was with that original population that was there, that the first ones that got swept, uh, Leary, along Leary. And we, because of the good work that Cynthia, his companion, did with him, he, she was able to get him connected to, um, to the Co-Lead program, and that's really what it's about.

It's about, you know, you, as I said, you find those gaps, find those balls that get dropped, and one of the balls that got dropped was that pe- they had lost track of the fact that he had this, he had a criminal record that needed to be fixed and worked on, and she had... Then she contacted, uh, uh, the, the Co-Lead folks, [00:43:00] which is, uh, which is an organization that's, uh, that's run by Lisa Dugard, who's this, this brilliant lady that has got probably one...

She, she's one of the best folks in Seattle in terms of genuinely designing s- uh, camp resolution strategies that involve this, this kind of deliberate, intentional house, uh, navigating and stuff. And so, uh, we got him connected with that, and then he, the next thing w- was he, we, he got clean, and then he went through, he was able to go through the court systems to, uh, to get completely out, you know, get his, uh, record expunged, and, um, and then- Free of warrants and all that.

Yeah. Yeah, and then he, uh, came out on the other side clean. Uh, went back to school, went to Seattle, uh, at, um, the City College, the, at Central there. Started there, ended up at Shoreline, and he, [00:44:00] his, his dream was to play soccer again in, in college. Well, the guy's 42 years old, and he... And I said at first, uh, you know, certainly Cynthia tried to sort of discourage him, but I said, "You know, go for it.

Give it a sh- give it a shot," and, and he did. He went out for the team, made the team. Didn't play much, but, uh, but he made the team. Goalie, I believe. He was the goalie, right. So, uh, and then he, he's got a job. He works for the Ambassador program for downtown. He's living in an apartment in the University District.

He's still going to school. And, uh, and now just recently, he, he again, much s- sort of much to, to Cynthia's chagrin and... But, but at the same time, I was sort of encouraging him a little bit. Sort of almost behind my back and behind our backs, he went and procured these jerseys And with the idea of selling them, and, uh- During, during World Cup

during, during World Cup here, and that's what he's doing. He's went- Yeah ... and got them, and I, and, uh, we got him plugged in with, thankfully to you [00:45:00] guys, to get him, to get him these rides, and, uh, he's all, he's all psyched. He started up yesterday selling jersey, and I'm sure he's gonna do a great job. But, uh, you know what I mean?

That's the kinda stuff that, uh, you see in movies, and you could write a movie, you know, you could make a movie about it. Yeah. It's just incredible. You just can't, can't imagine, you know, someone making such a life adjustment as, as he was able to do. Yeah.

Rex: And I think that the part that gets lost is that the beginnings of that really, I mean, the, the credit goes, goes to Brent, right?

He's done the heavy lifting. Mm. But, but the credit has to be also noticed by the companions that- Mm ... that are, you know, that he found in your organization. I mean, that's, that's critical.

Bruce: I, yeah, I've- Those are, those are big stepping stones ... I, I surely doubt. The, and we have right now, we've, we have 22 companions, and I would say of all those 22 companions, I can't think of any one of them that, uh, that the folks that they work with [00:46:00] are not better off.

Rex: Yeah. Brent called yesterday, and he was so beside himself. He, he sold, uh, 16 shirts.

Bruce: Okay.

Rex: It's like he just is so ecstatic.

Bruce: Yeah. Well, that's awesome.

Rex: Yeah. Um- If people wanna volunteer-

Bruce: Mm-hmm ...

Rex: with your organization, how do they do that?

Bruce: If you wanna volunteer with our organization, what I would recommend is, is get in contact with, with me at Green Lake Homeless Advocates.

You, you have your choice with me, either Green Lake Homeless Advocates, the, uh, you can check online. Dot, .

Rex: org or .

Bruce: com? It's, uh, .com.

Rex: Okay.

Bruce: Yeah. And, um, and you can also... Or you can check with the, the Ballard Task Force, n- which is a .com I think as well, and has, it's, uh, Ballard, it's ballardcommunitytaskforce, all one word.

And, um, it'll-

Rex: They probably can search Bruce Trager-

Bruce: Yeah, or Bruce Trager, yeah ... [00:47:00] online and

Rex: they'll find you.

Bruce: Yeah. And, um, yeah, I encourage anyone to just check that out. There are lots of programs out there that teach, you know, Sacred Streets does a great program for getting folks involved in companionship.

I should say this. They, they do the step of getting you to the point where you learn why you should be a companion. Mm-hmm. Uh, what we do is sort of take it to that next step, which is, okay, now that I know I should be a companion, how can I do that? And as I've, uh, I've already told you the, the program is, is easy.

Just go find a community meal somewhere and just look that up online in your local neighborhood. Find community dinners and go sit down and talk with people, and then talk with me and say, "Hey, you know, I went to this community meal and I, I really think that there's a couple folks there that I really like and I wanna be a companion."

And then you can And then I'll get you plugged into our program of companionship teams, which is really important to have companions that- Mm-hmm ... [00:48:00] that interact with one another and support one another. And that's where you sort of learn about, "Well, what have I... How has my heart changed in this, too? And what have I learned here in this process?

And what can I share with other folks that can help them make progress with their, with their person and get plugged into a pathway that helps them get off the streets?"

Rex: Yeah. You just said something that I think's, uh, really beautiful and, and I think vital, and that is when you go to this, uh, this meal, or it can be anything, right?

It can be a cleanup, it can, it can be whatever. But let's say you go to a meal and you find someone that you really like.

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: And you wanna be a companion for that person. I think, I think there's, like, the secret special sauce in that. Mm-hmm. Because I think if you're just gonna be a companion with anybody that perhaps, you know, an organization would say, "Here's Joe, you two be companions," uh, it's a lit- it's different, right?

Mm-hmm. That's formulaic- Mm ... versus if you, if you make this personal connection, there's some reason that you two connect.

Bruce: Yeah. [00:49:00] Well, that's a big part. That feels

Rex: important.

Bruce: That was a big part of my evolution, too, of understanding, 'cause I did try to push people in certain directions. "Why don't you go be a companion with this person?

I think you'd be good with this person." Now I just let it go, and I let them organically come to me and say, "Hey, I really have a need to figure out..." 'Cause you're gonna find out early on once... And these folks love to talk to anyone. They wanna share their stories with everybody. Believe you me, there's no way you can sit down at a table here and not have a conversation with these folks, 'cause they, they would love you to hear their stories.

And once... And then you're gonna hear something, you're gonna say, "Well, wait a second. Why is this guy living on the streets?" Yeah. "What's going on here?" And I, yeah, I need to figure out how to figure that out. I mean, you... And you can fi- you can ask them that. That's r- how do you, why do you think you're on the streets?

And what, do you wanna get off the streets? And if, if you decide, "Yeah, that's, I wanna help that person do that," you can do [00:50:00] it.

Rex: Yeah, that's beautiful.

Bruce: And all you gotta do, like I say, then, then reach out to me and say, "Hey, I've got this guy that I ran into." And that happens all, all the time, too. I haven't, I haven't gotten to the point where I've got 4,000 companions yet, but it does happen where people will show up and say, "I've been r- running into this guy at the post office every day.

You know, what should I do?"

Rex: Yep. I love what you're doing because one of the things I've heard over and over again is people calling, they've met somebody, they, they wanna do something, they start, and they hit a brick wall.

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: And they can't seem to go any further. Mm. And I think if, to be tapped into an organization that's helping those impasses, right?

Like, like teams of companioning and- Right ... and being able to be part of that conversation, sharing experiences, feels, feels supportive and, and productive.

Bruce: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It feels supportive and productive, and it is supportive and productive. [00:51:00] Yeah. Yeah.

Rex: Yeah. Good job, Bruce.

Bruce: All right. Great job, Rex. I mean it.

Yeah. I'm so, I'm so lucky to have, uh, run into you and be able to have the pleasure of working with you over the years 'cause it's, uh, you know, it's, it's great to know that, uh, that we're, there are those of us out there that recognize that the, what that secret sauce is.

Rex: Yeah, the feelings are mutual.

Bruce: Yeah.

Rex: Yeah. Thanks for sharing today.

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

Rex: Okay. We want to give a heartfelt thank you to Bruce for so beautifully sharing with us his perspective on how we can all get involved addressing and hopefully ending homelessness in our community. You Know Me Now is a project under the nonprofit Facing Homelessness.

It is produced, written, and edited by Tomas Bernatsky and me, Rex Holbein. Please join the 60,000 combined followers on our very active Facing Homelessness Facebook and Instagram pages, where you can join in on the conversation. [00:52:00] Thank you for listening to this episode of You Know Me Now.